E100 Belle Glos 25th Anniversary pt 2 | Joe Wagner

100 episodes. 25 years of Belle Glos Pinot Noir. One incredible journey.

 For the first time in a long time, we're putting our own host, 5th-generation winemaker Joe Wagner, in the hot seat to tell the story behind one of the world's most iconic Pinot Noir brands.
This is where Go With Your Palate—and Belle Glos—come full circle. 

🎙️ Go With Your Palate: Joe Wagner | Celebrating 25 Years of Belle Glos Pinot Noir

For our official 100th episode, we're turning the tables and putting our very own host, 5th-generation winemaker Joe Wagner, in the hot seat to celebrate not one—but two incredible milestones. As Go With Your Palate reaches its century mark, Joe reflects on the 25-year journey of Belle Glos, the Pinot Noir brand that helped redefine American Pinot and, over the last quarter century, earned Joe the nickname many affectionately know him by: The King of Pinot.

Long before Pinot Noir became one of the country's most celebrated varietals—before Sideways helped spark a nationwide obsession—Joe was one of the young guns betting on a grape he believed deserved its moment. He takes us back to those early days, sharing the risks, the lessons, and the unwavering belief that ultimately transformed Belle Glos, named in honor of his grandmother, into one of the world's most recognized Pinot Noir brands.

As we celebrate our 100th episode, we're grateful to reflect on the roots of Go With Your Palate with you—back when it was just Joe and Fat Mario swapping stories over a glass of wine before this wild ride evolved into conversations with some of the most fascinating guests we've ever had. It felt only right that this milestone brings us back to where it all began.

Of course, this is Go With Your Palate, so we don't just talk wine. We dive into the impact of Sideways, what makes Pinot Noir one of the most expressive (and misunderstood) grapes in the world, the evolution of California wine, and the passion that continues to drive Joe a quarter century after the first bottle of Belle Glos.

Whether you're a lifelong cork dork, a Pinot lover, or simply enjoy hearing how iconic brands are built from conviction, family, and a willingness to bet on yourself, this is an episode worth raising a glass to.

Here's to 100 episodes, 25 years of Belle Glos, and the stories that brought us here. Cheers. 🍷🥂

 🍷 To everyone who's watched, listened, shared, subscribed, or simply believed in Go With Your Palate—thank you for helping us reach 100 episodes. This is just the beginning.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:13

I was gonna go back to we had expanded uh our farming, you know, now to Monterey County and gotten to know a lot of people in Monterey. Loved the fruit coming out of Monterey, Santa Lucia Highlands in particular, but Arroyo Seiko

The Age of High in Demand Pinot Noir

SPEAKER_03 0:26

had some really good shit too. Um and uh and and so Mayomie had had grown at the time to be much bigger, and I was like, we can't just sustain doing what we're doing if we stick with Sonoma Coast. Um we've got our vineyard designates, we've taken like price increases on those because demand was high and we needed to slow it down and not run out of stock, which I've I've run out of inventory before. It is the biggest pain in the ass. Because all of that time you spent building up a market, and all of a sudden you've got you've got people that like love your wine, save like whatever, it could be a steakhouse in Texas, and they rely on Bell Gloss being their go-to, Pinot Noir, and then we're like, Oh, we're not gonna have any for six months. And you gotta go back in there, like hat in hand, and be like, hey, our new release is coming out. Um, can we get back on the list? Like, you gotta you gotta go back and do that foundational work again. And so one way to slow down your rate of sale is by raising price. There's no like perfect science. You can't be like, I know if I go from this to this, it will give me a 12-month sell through. But you know, if your model is purely direct to consumer and wine club, then that's great. If you sell everything out the day you release, that's awesome. Like, cool, go get it, that's your model, and that works. And and you're riding high if you if you're doing that. Um, but there's somewhere between that and large-scale production that is a much trickier situation where you have volatility and pricing, uh, demand is volatile as well. Um, and so we find ourselves or found ourselves in that position of like, okay, we want to make sure that for the restaurants that are carrying our wines that are pouring them by the glass or just having them on the list, or the wine shops that are carrying our wines and want to make sure that they're maintaining shelf placement, that we don't run out of stock and and somebody else takes that spot and we got to go back and do that work again. So taking a price increase would slow it down. Again, not a perfect science, but you can say, like, hey, we're we're gonna take a you know $5 increase, see what that does. Well, did it bring our production or our sales rate down by 20% and give us that runway for 12 months, or is it nine months of sell through? Or is it 18 months of sell? Like it's you just don't know, and you don't want to get too backed up on a vintage, or you also don't want to get too um too ahead of uh sales where they're you're running out of inventory. So we're learning how to manage the brand kind of from that perspective because we just didn't we couldn't put more wine into Belle Gloss. It was we could do that with Maomi, we could we could buy more grapes, but we couldn't plant and get a production in the first year off of like Clark and Telephone, Dairyman, or Las Alturas. So those things take take planning to be able to expand your production. And then sometimes your property just only has so much acreage, and you you hit a uh a stalemate, you're at a stopping point where it's like this is the maximum that we can ever plant here, this is the maximum we can produce, therefore this is this is what we're dealing with on an average basis. And then Pinot Noir on top of it has these volatile uh uh volume ups and downs because crop yields can be very iffy in these coastal areas. So you might have a year where you get three tons an acre and you're like, awesome, bumper crop, like that's that's solid. And then you might have a half a ton to the acre another year. Your inputs are all gonna be the same, your costs are gonna be the same, but your your volume is gonna be much, much lower. So, what do you do in those years? And those those are the years where you probably want to take a slight price increase or pump the brakes, like adjusting your by the glass pricing or whatever it might be, whatever tool you want to pull out, that's gonna allow you to manage the brand to maintain continuity of supply and also the the the you know visibility

Maintaining continuity of Supply vs Premiumization

SPEAKER_03 4:15

to the uh the customer out there.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Well, I find that interesting because it now the time that we're at now in the wine industry, there's like this uh thought of uh premiumization. Yeah. Where so we're seeing the volume of wine has decreased, whereas cost has increased in luxury. So it's kind of interesting, and and the volume of decrease, right, has been attributed to younger generations. Yeah. Um but there's still what's interesting about that is maybe not buying as much wine, but still kind of looking to spending more on those special bottles of wine, I guess, or more occasional or something like that. I just I find it kind of uh interesting that you're talking about that now in that time. It I think it's evolved.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Yeah, I think uh well, I think we've definitely hit a new level of something like that here with with where we're at. But you you also don't want to like jostle your pricing every year. I think that's one thing that if you can be the go-to, the constant, the reliable uh uh product in any any given case, really, not just wine, but you're gonna have more success uh by by maintaining those the that kind of like the that stability. Um so we we do our damnedest to do that. Uh and but there are some times where you just you hit a wall and you you can't. You gotta you gotta make some sort of slightly drastic maneuver. Um but yeah, the the I think the idea and what I think is now kind of showing itself and even just very recently, where yeah, the the idea that people are drinking less but drinking better. There's it's just so fragmented where the thought originally was that the younger generation is not drinking as much, which they aren't. Um they also don't have the money to drink well. Yeah. And the few that do are drinking well, and they're much more uh um like I'd say specific to what the event that they're going to be drinking what at. So if you're going out to a nice dinner, they're gonna try to make it a very special thing, and then they're gonna skimp on everything else for the next week or whatever, because they they treated themselves and they had a great experience. That's very important to them. But then you also have the older generations, um, I'll call them like the the baby boomers and Gen X, um, and even millennials to a degree, but I think it's really Gen X and above uh that we're now seeing information out that like they

Millennials are the drunkest generation...

SPEAKER_03 6:45

are drinking less. Um millennials are like the drunks of the group, by the way. We're we are millennials. But they they they are considered to be the uh the biggest abusers of alcohol. So so uh but we don't give up.

unknown 7:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

But uh, but but those older generations are also drinking less for other reasons. Um they still have the means, but they are drinking even better. And so you're seeing this move up the price ladder and people being more comfortable saying, like, yeah, I'm gonna buy a $40, $50 or $100 bottle of wine, and I'm gonna enjoy the hell out of that thing on Friday night instead of having, you know, wine Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And and so, and that's that's all good by me, but that is it is very fragmented right now. Um, but you know, our our our place in the wine world is a beneficiary of that, really. I mean, we're we're we're doing okay. Um, we're not doing phenomenally well, we're not growing by leaps and bounds, but you know, we're showing some growth um after a couple of really, really difficult years, and you know, it's uh I mean COVID from then on and all the jostling in the market, consumer uh changes in demand and all that, and you know, we've tried to stay as stable as possible. So like we're always here for you. You you want to have a great bottle of Pinot Noir, we want we want you to feel like this wax seal is our guarantee to you that you're gonna have a good good experience with this wine. Um and I think that that does resonate with people.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

And I think I mean, and well, I was gonna ask, uh I'll just ask it now. Like with uh with the 25 years, um is there anything you would have like is there anything you would have changed that that you did? Or would you like if it if you had to do it all over again, would you just done it the same way?

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Dude, I probably would have changed everything.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Really?

SPEAKER_03 8:35

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Okay, because I because I'm saying, like, okay, first of all, it's like you chose, and again, this is not saying

Would Joe have changed anything in his 25 years of Pinot?

SPEAKER_00 8:41

anybody anything wrong about the people that go the route of school, okay? But you kind of did this thing where you like, you know, you said it yourself, you dropped out of college and you just went straight to work. Yeah. And you kind of did this thing, and I don't I don't think you I don't know if you mentioned it, but you were living in a trailer in Mexico for your first experience, and that, and that, and then you were going into more of vineyard management, grape growing. Yeah. And so I felt like when you were telling your story, what I was hearing is that that kind of foundation, and then especially kind of getting with a group of of others that uh like you, but then also from different backgrounds. I'm trying to move to the um, you know, like this whole story kind of feels like it, you know, and everything that that opportunity that was right there when Sideways came out to then, I mean it sounds it sounds like you know that like it sounds like a good route to me. It was okay, it's but maybe there was some things that we haven't mentioned that there was nothing wrong with the route.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

I'll say and and that's life, right? Like that's and that's kind of the beauty of it. You look back and you're like, Yeah, we I would have changed, you know, uh a hundred things, easy.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Um but you also look at it and you're like, fuck, I would have not been where I'm at today without without having those kind of like whatever odd, you know, pivotal moments uh that that really you know put me into a difficult position. Like that year that we produced three times the amount of fruit, yeah, that was before sideways. And the uh the uh accountant for the company was looking at our debt load and was like, you might just want to consider shutting this down. And that's like that hits you hard, and you're like, no, we're gonna fucking make this work. Like, yeah, I know we're we're riding on, we invested in vineyard and planting and all the inputs that go into it, and then making the wine, and then the barrels and all, I mean, all of that shit, right? And we're like, yeah, we're we're going to put even more money into it by bottling it, and then we're gonna hope that it sells and makes us some money.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Um, but yeah, that was I mean, that was a real conversation. It was I was I was in a ton of debt, and it was like, well, I'm either gonna make it work this year or it's it is gonna go under. And uh, and so it but that was that was a risk, right? I was young, I was I was like, you know, very like I had my opinions and and uh what my thoughts were, and I was like, if there's a will, there's a way I'm gonna make this work. And uh would it have worked if sideways didn't come out? I don't know. Um, but uh, but you know, that's the hindsight. I I wish uh I knew the answer to that, but in in the meantime, we were able to, you know, build a brand because of the happenings that went on um and the risk that was involved. But that the the the success of the brand didn't come without risk.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Um that was you know, my I think that what my dad had had said to me was uh, and I think it's a great philosophy when you have you know children and you know you want to keep the door open to them if they want to get involved in the family business, which is a very special thing, I think. And I've got my children and I have those conversations with them now. And it's like it's funny in America you kind of look down. I was a victim of this, I self-victimized myself with this, which I absolutely hate being. Um but uh but yeah, I I wanted to look elsewhere because I was like, I don't want to like just follow in my family's footsteps, like I gotta make my own way.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

And it's so funny that America has this idea that that that's not like a respect, it's not the most respectable

The Family Business of today...

SPEAKER_03 12:15

thing to do. I actually think that in Europe and most most other countries for that matter, if you have a family business that's being passed down generation to generation, it's like the most respectable thing to do. The society around them looks at it like that's that's the best way to go. Like you you want to carry on uh the knowledge and the foundation and the continued building of what your family has created with generations before you. We don't really have that here in America. It's kind of viewed negatively, which is an odd thing. And that's something I'm you know working with my kids on right now and understanding that it's not so much about I'm not giving you a business, I'm giving you an opportunity. And that's how my dad approached it. He said, like, you know, you're you're gonna have your own, like this is if you want to get involved in the business, you're the finances are not like part of the family business, like this is your own business.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Um, but what did he give me? He gave me uh the resources, like the a place to make the wine, the knowledge of how to grow grapes and make wine. Um market the marketplace, getting to understand and learn the marketplace and uh and you know, working with him and under him and and and getting all of that experience to uh develop relationships that would carry into my future and and whatnot. So uh that's all I think you know, a big that's all a big part of it, right? Um in that that you know generational piece. Um but I I'd say that I didn't really see that at the time so much, like in my early days. Um I was just trying to work and try to make something happen, but also taking advantage of uh the kind of familial and institutional knowledge that my dad and anybody around my dad had. Um so and trying to do that same thing with with my kids right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Uh did your dad teach you about influencing?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Totally. Yeah, yeah. He's like someday this thing called TikTok. TikTok's gonna go about it. Like old school influencing.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

I mean, I because I I think about the involvement, and we talked about where it came from. I think you were talking about the hard times with the critics, and we already kind of talked about you know social media. You're talking, I mean, also just people taking on family businesses, I think now who would have known that there would have been you know YouTube around or stuff like that, and these kids can kind of just hop on anywhere and see someone just start creating their own thing digitally, right? Their own channel, which I would say is a business, whatever they're talking about, whatever the video games or you know how to play with you know tell toys or whatever they're doing on there, you know, it's up to the phone.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

People were making money in the weirdest fucking ways, dude.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Exactly, right? Yeah. And it yeah. Um and so I was like seeing how you've evolved with that during the time. And if you think that's like I mean, do you do you think it's good do you do you like it for the wine industry in in the sense that people can now um look so much more to others for guidance or or knowledge about wine and where to go instead of just relying on like critics and a number.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Oh, I I like it

Social Media vs Wine Industry

SPEAKER_03 15:15

much more. I actually like, you know, if you're taking that kind of like word of mouth and just, you know, sharing of content, I much prefer that over your old school like print ads or billboards or anything. Like like you're actually able to hear somebody's opinion on something. That's I think that's way better, or actually hear their backstory if you're actually going to their their channel. Not enough people in the wine industry have taken that to heart and are actually exploring and exposing who they are. I think like like we are to a degree, but not like what we're doing right now. Like today, this is you you gotta be a committed person to the brand or our or company to listen to this whole fucking podcast of you and I talking, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:56

You are. And we we thank you very much if you are truly listening to all this.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

They're like, where's the chapter marker that just talks about this 25th anniversary bottle that I'm staring at? Because we're gonna have to talk about that here pretty soon. But no, but this is all good stuff because I'm you've I'm saying this because you've thrown yourself into this social media gig. I I think uh not like almost like five years now, right? Because COVID was really what kind of got us to push you in into it.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Yeah, you did push me into it.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah, yeah, we did yeah, we kind of pushed you. Well, I mean, I think you kind of liked it. You like a little push.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

But I I mean it was, you know, yeah, marketing has completely changed now, and the uh the uh industry needs to evolve and and move with the marketing of how people want to digest marketing rather than trying to continue to push against the traditional forms of marketing. Yeah. Um and that that'll all get figured out in time. I mean, wine's not gonna die, it's not gonna go away, but like people are gonna figure figure out if, you know, the the ones that do are gonna survive uh or you know, be the most well-known. They're gonna have an opportunity right now to to do it. And I think that's kind of we're we're also trying to take that opportunity. Um, but I would much prefer, rather than us being a singular successful online premise or on online presence through multiple platforms, I would rather see 50 or 100 people in the industry doing stuff that we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Because that's gonna that's gonna raise the tide. And the tide is a benefit to everybody in the industry of wine in general.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

I think we got to get back to that that vibe that you had with the group when you were first starting out with Pinot. I would like to see like the wine communities come more and more together, yeah, and and learn from each other. I mean, even with we've been doing that with uh social media, but another piece I like about it too, which I feel like you've always said at the beginning, and and we have a lot of fun and and we do a lot of crazy things. I mean, did you I don't think you would have ever thought someone had been like, hey, that wax, dude, you're gonna be any waxing Cheetos and eating them. You're gonna be actually making red your own red bottom chews. Yeah, bloody chews. But to get attention, to like have fun with people, to let them know that this isn't a stuffy culture anymore, that that it is inclusive. Yeah. And that everyone's welcome and you can have fun and work.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

And it's fucking fun. Yeah, it's a fun industry.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

We can have it just as fun as the spirits, like we said, in in in the breweries and and all that. So with that being said, I feel like you've always you've you do you've always had a love for the educational piece though, too. And I and it's crazy to me, it's always there's always gonna be a need. Like even though that there's chat GPT and Google and stuff like that, you'll still be people in the comments that say, like, oh, you're just doing the wax so you can sell your wine for more money. It's and then we gotta get into stealing, right? But how many times have you talked about the wax

Let's talk about that wax seal...one more time :)

SPEAKER_00 18:45

seal?

SPEAKER_03 18:46

It's I mean, let's talk about it for a second. I know we talked about it for a minute here, but like the wax seal was originally the differentiator differentiator. And I remember bringing the sample bottles up to my dad. And I like we did a you know, just the neck, a little bit deeper on the neck, and then and then this, like, but it wasn't consistently on the front back then. It was like randomly just sideways, yeah, like 45 degree angle. And uh sideways, ooh, man. Sideways, we preempted sideways. Uh and uh and so my dad just looks at it, he's like, I mean, that's a good look, but we said something to that effect, like that's a good look, but if you start doing wax, you're gonna be stuck doing wax for the rest of your life. And I was like, ah, man, it's only gonna be a couple hundred cases, like that not a big deal. And um, and so then he used uh a guy that he used to work with, Randy Dunn, who's still making wine up on uh Hell Mountain. Yeah, he's like Randy Dunn started using wax and he can't get away from that shit. People buy his wine and he wants to get away from it, but he thinks that people are gonna stop buying his wine because they love the look of the wax. And again, I was like, that's a couple hundred cases, no big deal. And uh and so we we started doing the wax. And what I will say about the wax is um I don't have anything to prove this, but when that influx of brands and products came out from you know, like a dozen or more to five hundred or more, um it really did help uh solidify the relevance of of Bell Gloss with the red wax because I knew people tasted the wine, I knew people liked it. We still didn't have good scores, but we would be at these events and we'd be one of the few tables with like you know, five or ten people deep, like waiting in line to get a taste of our wines. And I thought that was absurd. You'd have like people right next door to us that were like they'd be lucky to get one one person every couple minutes to come and want to taste their wine. And I was like, dude, was that because well, I mean, we were the like an early Pinot Noir producer prior to Sideways, and so we had already kind of created something there, but then people just knew the red wax, and so if they forgot the name and they went into a wine store and they're like, I had this wine that I really liked of this, you know, Fort Mason Center for Pinot Days in San Francisco, whatever. I don't remember the name, but it had this deep red wax, and like boom, got it, Bell Gloss. Yeah, and and so that I think helped us maintain um relevance during during that period. Um, and even I think my dad's advice was right. It's like you're gonna be stuck with wax. Well, we're stuck with wax, but I don't I don't dislike that at all. Um you know, I think that I I think that it's it's part of our ethos, and I think it does tell the story of like not only is this our higher tier from say like Bowen, but this is our way of showing you from the exterior what put what we put into the uh into the wine itself. And whenever people talk shit about it online, I just want to ask them like a couple questions, but I'm like, what kind of designer clothes do you own? Do you have like a fucking black shirt that says Versace that you paid an extra hundred dollars for instead of just buying it from Gap? Like, do you wear your fucking fancy shoes or do you just wear your You know, your your regular sketchers. And it's like I guarantee all those people like they like branding is branding.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

There's an image associated with every

#1 First Date Wine

SPEAKER_03 22:09

product you put on your body, every product you put in your in your body as well. Like and and that like that's if that's what people get out of this, if they feel like if some dude goes on a first date and orders a bottle of Bell Gloss because he knows it's gonna taste good, he knows it's gonna look goddamn good and be impressive on the table, then fucking make that your first date wine every time. Like that's if you keep on winning with it, and I do get that a lot. People come up to me all the time at events and they're like, Bell Gloss is our first date. That was our first our wine of the first date. I'm like, man, is there something in this? Yeah, engagement.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Like something like that, I get that.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

I know we got a little more alcohol in our wines than most Pinot Noirs, but I also think it's like there is something that just feels like you're gonna have a good time when the bottle looks good and the wine tastes good and and it's impressing everybody at the table. Like that's and that's what you go for at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

And also, I mean, to your point with the Versace point, it's like, yeah, I mean, branding's one thing, but did you also know that there was like a practical aspect to it, that there was actually like an efficient aspect to it, right? Like that's even better. So it's just kind of like to me, it's yeah, if it looks sexy and cool, and then that's a point, and people remember it and they're like and it's helping your brand, even back in the day, yeah, it's keeping your line longer. That already is a good enough reason.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Yeah, right. I mean, we you know, the the thing is you could just put one little tiny bit of wax on there and it would do the the service of a wax seal.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

But why not make it look good? That's what I don't get. It's like people people like look at it's it's everything, like it's all around you. Otherwise, do you just want to go back to government cheese?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Where it's just a white box and it says cheese and black writing or butter.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

I think that's going back though.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

It's the minimum the minimalism minimalism is gonna die, dude. I can't wait for it to die. It's where when are we gonna see maximalism? Like, I hate seeing these cities that are all just gray and drab and boxy, and there's no character to them. Like, bring back color on buildings, architectural relevance, like that's all got to come back. Maximists. Max maximalism. Maximalism. I like that maximalism. Just some style, dude. Bring style back.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Well, this is actually I got because I do want, I mean, it's been it's been staying here. It's been like, I mean, standing here, it's been standing here just eyeing at me, looking at me. Um, do you want to talk a little a little bit about this? I just want to get this in too, because this is this is the celebration of yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

I mean, for sure, like 25 years. There are a couple things I wanted to to talk about, though, also with yeah. So, like, yeah, Bel Gloss, we named it after my grandmother, Lorna Belgloss.

Belle Glos: Why it's the Perfect Name...

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Um that was a name, and I did work well like with my dad on this, and like we were going back and forth. Uh we were playing with a name called Nuage. Nuage means it's it it's spelled almost like Nuage, N-U-A-G-E. In French, it means uh cloud. Okay, like fog, cloud, whatever. And so that was kind of like the coastal vibe and and that sort of thing. Had a bunch of different names that that all kind of correlated to the coastline. Had Bell Gloss, had a couple variations of Bell Gloss, like just Bell, like you know, and Le Belle. Um, and it was really that was that was kind of the familial part where it was like my grandmother uh being a lover of Pinot Noir, and people have heard me talk, they've heard the story. Uh she was a co-founder of Camus, lover of Pinot Noir, big inspiration to all all she was around, but like her family especially. Um, and it was her family that originally came here from uh Alsace uh back in the day. So we were the the first ancestors of mine were from my grandmother, Lorna Belgoss, my paternal grandmother. Um, and they brought over their skill sets of growing grapes, making wine, and they made their way to California somehow when this place had like a bale grist mill, and that was it. Um so so uh and they homestead it up on Hell Mountain. And uh and so we have a lot of history here, like before it was even a wine-growing region, and and so I wanted to kind of honor her, her, her, like her history and and uh all of the heritage along the way, um and uh and also you know, being a more delicate style of wine with Pinot Noir, uh I felt like it was very fitting to like carry that that heritage on uh through through the bottling. And I mean she uh we I worked very closely to her. She was uh I mean quite a bit older than me, obviously, but she lived to the age of about 98. Um and I got to see her on a like daily basis, like five, six days a week. And uh, and I think she was actually over time, she became very honored that we carried her name on the bottle. Which that was the first time we ever put a family name on the bottle. Um and you know, like people have asked about Camus, and my grandfather's story was uh he had lived through prohibition and the Great Depression, and he didn't want to put his last name on something that the federal government could uh collapse without his doing. You can guess where he was politically.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

He was an interesting guy, and I think my grandmother Lorna Bell as well, they were both uh very interesting politically. I mean, very much uh um independent-minded, but just fiscally responsible more than anything. But they really didn't give a shit what you wanted to do with your own life. Like my grandfather always thought, like, make all drugs legal. Like, you know, like he's like, what if you want to ruin your life, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I just thought you wanted to party.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

So he never understood like the waste of infrastructure and time to to you know keep people from uh damaging themselves, I guess. Anyways, I just he had he had some really interesting ideas and and I can appreciate them all. Um but uh but yeah, so back to the branding, it was we ended up with bell gloss, but one thing I I had mentioned earlier that the king of wine is known as Cabernet, the queen of wine is known as Chardonnay, and uh and so that leaves Pinot Noir as being like the next most relevant varietal in a way, not by volume necessarily, but uh prestige, I think is how I'd look at it. Like you have the main houses of France that kind of set the precedent there from a varietal standpoint, Cabernet, Pinot Noir, Chardonnay. So Pinot Noir has been referred to as the Red Queen. Um and so I played a lot with that brand name. Um and and you know, different languages, different variations of how to kind of like denote this being the queen of the Reds, not the king of the Reds, like Cabernet, but the Queen of the Reds. Uh so we we dropped those names and went with Bell Gloss, which I think was in hindsight the right thing to do. But it it's a it's a very it's not an easy name. You know, you come up with a brand like Quilt, people get it right away. Like it's easy. Uh, and and you know, you gotta say Bell Gloss or drink it or enjoy it a number of times before you can remember it as like one of your go-to Pinot Noirs. So uh, but nonetheless, we were able to, you know, I think we took the harder route, but it was the right route uh to be able to to to to build the brand um like that. So, you know, and again, it was it was tiny, you know, for years, and that tripling of production as well, that wasn't like going from 10,000 cases to 30,000 cases. We're talking like hundreds of cases to like over a thousand cases. So I I when I say tripling production, I always I always forget to like mention that point because that that's a big difference. Yeah. And so, but still, I mean, selling a hundred cases of wine for some people is very hard. Like, that's not you gotta get out and fucking sell the stuff. Um, so nonetheless, it was still a tripling. Um, and uh, and you know, the the brands grew and and you know, the the the Sonoma Coast, which became Maomi, that grew. And I do remember talking to my dad at one point, and he also has some you know interesting good philosophies and and whatnot. And one of those being that we were talking about like how did I get into Pinot Noir? He didn't he didn't put that in front of me, didn't like say, hey, you're trying Pinot Noir. Um, but he just said I'm I give every one of my kids an opportunity, they're not all the same opportunity, they're not all fair, they're not all as as equitable, but it's where you take the opportunity that matters. And so you could look back in hindsight and say, I got the opportunity of a product of a varietal that nobody gave a fuck about, but I but I believed in it, yeah, and it became a very successful company, and like that's that's something to be really proud of. And so my dad did tell me in like some later years. Um he we were having a conversation, and I think the question was something of oh, where did you think this was you know gonna go? Like, where did you think Pinot Noir was gonna go? And he's like, Oh hell, I I figured that you know you'd be a huge success if you sold 20,000 cases of Pinot Noir. We were doing like over 600,000. Mostly, mostly May. And I was like, Yeah, it kind of took off. Um and and so, but back to that that part of uh that that trajectory when Mayomie took off, that was uh also kind of out of necessity. I

Creating Meiomi: the Pinot Noir that exploded during a recession...

SPEAKER_03 31:30

will get back to the 25th. But this is an important part of the story because um we went through a recession around like what 2008-2009. Uh, and it was like there were no orders of our wine for this is not just Belgos, like the whole family, like no orders of wine for a couple months. It was like end of the year, you know, like October hit, that's when the stock market crashed and or the housing market crashed, is what it really was. And then uh so nobody knew where the bottom was. I don't think we saw where the bottom was until the beginning of the following year. Um, but there were no orders, so we dug into you know the books and tried to figure out what we're gonna do and and when are these you know distributors gonna start ordering again, what's going on in the marketplace. It was a really odd period of time where people didn't want to have fancy things in their possession. You didn't want to carry around a luxury bag. You were embarrassed. I don't know if you remember this. You didn't want to wear uh designer shoes, you didn't want to have, you know, you didn't want to drive a Cadillac, you wanted to drive a Chevy. Like if you had the means, you still didn't want to show it because you knew how many people were out there struggling. Um, and what happened during that time was a massive trade down from Belgloss to Mayom. And that was the beginning of of the the rise, like this massive rise. We already were were in a ton of restaurants, and that's where it was supposed to be. But I remember talking to the buyers over at Safeway, and this is like the first time I ever got into like retail chain. So I go over to Pleasanton here in California, they're not too far, two hours away from us, and I meet with them. There were uh two guys, I think, at the time, and I'm pitching Naomi, like hey, like to bring it into their stores. And first time we'd go into retail, and they're like, We've you know never heard of this wine. Uh, like, what do you like why we we can't bring it like there's no track record, and I didn't even know they were looking at data, like in-store data, competitor competitor stores data as to what wines are going. They all kind of look at their own successes and say, Oh, we're missing out on this product, so we better bring it in into our stores. Um, and so they they got convinced to bring in to I think they're top-tier Safeway stores in California, um, and uh, and and they they tried it out. But the only thing they had to go on was like, I was like, it's part of Bell Gloss. We're selling about 90,000 cases in restaurants right now, and we get calls all the time that people want to buy this stuff retail, and we were not selling it at the at the tasting room. And um, and so they brought it in and it flew off the shelf. And then this is when I started learning about a whole different world of the market, uh, where you know it's like, all right, now we're we're looking at Nielsen data or like Circana IRI data, like just scan data going through the register, you can pay for it, and you get to see how products are doing and how you stack up against your competitive set. Um, I started learning about that, uh, seeing that that that brand was going you know to the moon, and and then you bring that data and you say, Hey, Safeway and Albertsons are doing really good with this, like Kroger, you're missing out. They go, Fuck, we're missing out. Like, authorize it at all stores. So it blew up, and and then it was a wild time of just managing uh inventory where instead of like pumping the brakes, probably another thing I'd do differently. Um, I I don't think I would have taken that you know supply-the-demand approach to the extent that I did. I think I probably would have just said, like, hey, we're we're good where we're at, like after we hit a certain point, now we're gonna manage it based on price. Um, but we took multiple years of just if there's a demand, we're gonna supply it. And it was a wild time. Like it was trying to manage when something is like you got a tiger by the tail and you have no ability to like we we're buying fruit almost exclusively for Maomi. So like there's a little bit of drop down from Bell Gloss, but like their Maomi was so big and and had its it had its own dedicated like amount of fruit that we needed to purchase. And um, and so we ended up uh uh you know having to say like, well, we think we're gonna double it again this year. Like, I don't know, maybe like okay, well that we're buying, you know, millions of dollars in grapes with the assumption that that's gonna go into bottle and be sold in you know the next 24 months from the time you you pick it. Um and and so it was just a wild time of like you'd have a nine-month sell-through, and you're like, okay, we're gonna react and try to push that out to like an 18-month sell-through for for the next vintage, and and then finding space to produce became a whole nother issue in itself. Uh you know, just uh being able to blend a blend that big was uh really tough. We had taken over a a large facility that had these monstrous tanks, and and we were able to do our blends there and maintain quality because it was the philosophy was you produce the wine and you bottle it, and that's that's it. It's not just hey, we need more wine, and then you find more wine over in somebody else's tanks and you bring it in and blend it and throw it in. Like that's not how that's not the industry that I I wanted to be in. The commodity wine industry is very different from fine wine, but how can you do scale at the level of fine wine? That was the balancing act that we were managing, and and it became a monster, and then uh then we ended up selling it in 2015, which was a good deal.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

And and that's that's something you wouldn't change.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

No, I wouldn't change that. No, that was a pretty good deal. Yeah, no, it was uh it was it was a it was a good time to sell. Uh it was just becoming a monster. I felt like we were all unbalanced. Um we had this giant production, then we had all these like smaller ones, smaller brands that we we had been working on. Uh I was going through a divorce. Uh I'm trying to think what else. Uh we were in a lot of debt as well, but it was it was all cycling. Like it was that that all worked well. Like you still need to work with a bank if you even if you don't need them. Um But uh nonetheless, it was uh it was just a it was a crazy time, but it got us to be able to refocus on just like what really mattered, which was Bell Gloss and the other brands we now have, like Quilt and then Bowen came shortly after that, etc. Um, so uh so yeah, I mean it it's we've got a good portfolio, it's tight. We want to keep it that way. We don't want like a hundred skews. Um, but we did add this one skew just this last year, this year, which we've been anticipating

The Best Vintage of Pinot Noir Ever: Belle Glos 25th Anniversary

SPEAKER_03 38:00

this. We actually wanted to do a 20th anniversary. I don't know if you knew that.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Well, I I that could actually kind of I mean I thought there was I thought that was coming, and so it was.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Well, there was there was there was talk about it until 2020 happened and it was the fires and COVID. That why didn't you still do it? It's like, dude, the last thing I want to celebrate, I don't ever want to see a bottle with the 2020 vintage on it again. That fucking year sucked.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah. So so we were sucked, but like also showed a lot of heart, I want to say, too. Because the fact that like that's a thing, right? I mean, did you can you say, oh, it was 2020, so we didn't come out with a vintage that year? No.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

We did come out with a vintage, but it was very short because we did have fire damage.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Yeah, there was fire damage wearing masks out there because it's like with a pandemic too at the same time, it was like it was chaos. But I just wanted to give like credit where credit's due to like you and the team for that's what you do, right? It's like you can't you just can't be like, oh I mean, think about the excuses you could take in that time.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

Well, a lot of people did take those excuses and say we're just not gonna produce. Yeah. And they didn't. Um but yeah, I mean, yeah, I I looking back on 2020, that was a that was a horrible year just in general. But yeah, it did it did show resilience and grit and all the all the good things that you you know hope your team has and hope that you have internally as well. I mean, because that was like unprecedented times in all ways. Um but uh but yeah, so we we skipped on it. I could tell you by October of that year, I was like, we're not doing a 2020 celebration vintage. So even if the harvest came in, but then then it was kind of like, well, we'll see how 25 goes. And I kind of had my hopes up for 20. You know, I was like, I was like, it'd be pretty cool to do 20. Um and and then once we had the vintage, I was like, I don't want to ever get my hopes up again. Let's see what the next kind of milestone is. If it's 25, great. Um, and uh, and so 25 rolled around, and you're like, yeah, it's a quarter century. It it puts us, you know, it tells our story about how we were making wine pre-sideways when it was really a risky time to be making Pinot Noir. Um, and we've we've talked about that, but you know, it's it's really a cool, a cool like just little point. Um because you got to really believe in something when there's when there's you know seemingly no opportunity in it, right? Yeah, and it can't be a hobby, it's gotta make some money. Um and so that was you know, it's like it's like going back to those days. So 25 rolls around, 2025, and it is like a dream season. It was it was a good sized crop, not too heavy, not too light, just good all across the board, every region. Um, and you know, I'm gonna use the classic winemaker line, like best vintage for Pinot Noir of my career. I'm not getting like the joke is that every year the winemaker says last vintage was the best vintage of my career. Uh no, but 2025 absolutely knocked the doors off. It was, I mean, best vintage for Pinot Noir. Um, I mean, like I can say, Cabernet, really difficult in 2025. Uh 2023 Cabernet, best vintage of my career for Napa Cabernet. Um and that's already like, you know, we're I think we're almost sold out of that. So that's like we're not we're not saying it just to sell it. It's like, yeah, well, yeah, 24 turned out good, but like there was something like special, like spectacular about the 23. And I gotta say the same thing about uh the the 2025. So when we saw that, we could tell right off of like I mean, you're you're mid-fermentation, you're like, oh yeah, this is gonna be a good year. And um, and so then you start thinking, like, okay, well, if this does come to fruition and the whole vintage help uh finishes off in a in a positive way, what do we want to do? And you know, the thought was maybe we'll just do a 25th anniversary for all of the vineyard designates and just like change the label for a year. I was like, that doesn't seem like a celebration. Like we'll still have those and we we want to do that, but let's do something that's kind of like unique that tells a little more of the story of the brand um and what started the what created the brand, what what carries the brand forward. And uh, and we started thinking about this idea of of using our three main vineyard designates. So Las Alturas being I think the largest portion of the blend, but it's like 36% or something like that. It's like they're more or less kind of a third, a third, and a third. Las Alturas is a little more skewed um into it just because Las Alturas is is like a a rock star. It's so showy all the time. And I just thought it needed a little more structure. So um, but taking those three, working them together to create this more style-driven, like the Belle Gloss style Pinot Noir from these three vineyards, and and that's what we created, being able to to you know, showcase that wine and tell the story. And I do think the wine turned out like just awesome. I think people are gonna be really happy with it if they if they get themselves a bottle. Um and it looks fucking sexy too. I really like the look at this. We yeah, we I mean, because it it the fun part about this is like you do a one-off and like, yeah, we can let's go screen print it. Like it's gonna look really good with the red wax, and you know, it's we need to differentiate it from the other the other wines as well. And that's what we're able to do.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yeah, I think it's also um important to note that it's not just a popular first date wine, it also has a 100% success rate. So I mean it also has that to

Being Practical & Sexy at the same time...

SPEAKER_00 43:40

attribute.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

That is that is the the guy.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Whatever the guys tell me it's like our first date wine, he's like, you know it's Thursday, dude.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

It had to go well, dude.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

With that. And this this is the first time ever with these three single vineyards coming together.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

First time.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yeah, and I think that's I mean, I think that's pretty magical in itself. Those just being like like you said, they that it's the first time they really come together as a family to celebrate. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah, it's and it's kind of like why why haven't we done this before? Like it's you know, Yeah, I d I mean you I mean 'cause you kinda like step you you step back and you're like okay, we just needed something to celebrate to bring the ideas to the table, and then and then we picked the idea that we think is the right idea, like but it really feels really right. Yeah. And maybe this is something we continue doing, like just for the tasting room in 2026, 2027. Because it's kind of funny, is that our our vintages coincide with our anniversary. So 2001 was our first vintage. Yeah. And that was our first vintage. Yeah. 2002, 02 was our second.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

So our all of our anniversaries are going to coincide with the vintage year.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Yeah. Oh. We started 2001. Yeah. Like you couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

It's like you're saying it's like all perfectly.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

You get that chance one time in a hundred years.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

To start a brand in 01.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

I mean, I kind of just think this

This Pinot Noir Story: Only in the movies...

SPEAKER_00 45:09

is like the whole story. I feel like the if you if you actually could do this like cinematic presentation of this, like in the movies, like, and you just told your whole story or what you were going through with right now and how everything kind of fell into place and you know, even down to just that that last point that you made. So people would be like, eh, only in the movies.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

It's no, you're I think you're it's like really it's a good point. It's funny to think about.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

They're like, oh, and then like they're the underdog varietal, and then this movie comes out, and then like, you know, I mean it's like triple production.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

You know, I mean, like just go sideways do it, just make it this like the story. Like he was too young, so he grew a beard, and then about station like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

You know, it's like she's all that, you know, or like the nurse or whatever. They would like, they're like, okay, this is so fucked up back then too, right? Because like in this movie, they're like, let's let's make her ugly, give her glasses and uh put her hair up. But then at the end, we're gonna reveal that she's really hot. She's gonna take those glasses off, throw them on the ground, and then just kind of like throw out her hair, which is like still, I think, kind of like rude because it's like glasses are sexy. Anyways, I went off on a tangent there, but you get what I'm saying. I get what you're saying. Yeah. Uh yeah. And I think that's great. And with the blending process, like, I mean, when you're bringing in these three vineyards together, um because you're like when you were like going through your tasting, like did it take you a long time to get there, do you think? Or was that even like in the timing or no?

SPEAKER_03 46:36

I mean, we we selected certain certain I'll call them like fermentation lots that we we we really wanted this to be a little like a level of show above like what our vineyard designates are known for. So like we ended up picking a little more of like like cherry picking some of the riper stuff.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

There's still plenty that goes into our our like bottlings of Las Alturas Clark and Telephone and Terry Man, but like this was just like, hey, we're we're not making as much of it. Let's just hand pick kind of like the stuff that's gonna be really chewy Pinot Noir. And it's I mean, this is this is gonna offend the traditionalists more than our other wines. The traditionalists are like, that's kind of like what you're doing, though, right? It's like yeah, it's like oh you th you you thought we couldn't go any crazier? Yeah. Yep, no, we're gonna fuck with you.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Well, okay, wait. And okay, just just to expand a little bit on that, though that might them those that might not know or but familiar with the style when we're talking about like the style bell glass, what sets it apart. How is it gonna offend the traditionalness?

SPEAKER_03 47:37

I mean, it so everybody's got their own personal preference and in their palette, right? And some

How this Pinot Noir offends Traditionalist in the best way

SPEAKER_03 47:41

people are guided more by, you know, the the um God, I I guess you can call them like the elitists of the wine world that are kind of like telling you you should only be drinking this because they've been making it for this way or 300 years or 500 years, whatever. Um, and that that some variety is supposed to only be within these boundaries of of style and character. And every region has different options for what that might look like. Like you're not gonna be able to make a Bordeaux style of Cabernet and Napa, and you're not gonna be able to make a Napa style of Cabernet and Bordeaux. Um, same thing for Pinot Noir. Like, if you prefer to have a very kind of lean, very delicate, uh, lighter, higher acid style of Pinot Noir, by all means, go for it, drink that, enjoy it. I don't think that's what California does best. If you want to drink that, go to Burgundy and you'll you'll find some great ones. New Zealand's got some really great uh Pinot Noirs, their own unique style, uh, but very uh very much like on the on the lighter, more delicate side. When I say that this is going to offend the traditionalists, they're gonna taste this and be like, this doesn't even taste like pinot noir. It's like, yeah, no shit. Because I don't want it to taste like you know, root vegetables and fucking celery. Like I want my wines to taste good. I want them to have some earthiness, but be really fruit forward, have a ton of spice, good acid balance, not a lot of tannin, but a ton of structure, like the phenolic weight. I think that's what really gets people set off the most, is that they taste it and they just feel this thing just like in their mouth, just like an explosion. And they're like, whoa, this doesn't feel like Pinot Noir. But then if you pay attention to the finish, the finish, like all of that kind of melds down into this nice, like firm acid that carries the character through for a long period. And that's the beauty of Pinot Noir, because without without the acid, you're gonna have this kind of like just drab, sappy, flabby style of wine. Um and and if you have too much tannin, too much acid, it's gonna tighten up on your palate. So uh it's got this natural tendency towards low tannin and high acid. It's our job to bring out the mid palate and and really force that to be a big part of the wine. And along with that, you're gonna be you're gonna be setting and extracting your aromatics and your flavors and all that. But really, when we're fermenting, we're focusing on how much color pickup we have and um what our phenolic profile is. How does it how does it feel against the acidity? Even when it's at 10 bricks and still clicking down, like we we're paying attention to that shit, uh, and making sure there's no like you know flaws that are that are coming in.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

Um, but yeah, so I I think that people are gonna absolutely love it or absolutely hate it. I think I'm I'm willing to bet that more people are gonna love it than hate it.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Yeah, I think they're gonna love it. I was gonna say, like, my mouth starts watering because then I'm just thinking about like I think there's just such a strong connection to oh, how can I harmonize this with foods? You know what I mean? You start I think that's the fun of it. And that's the fun, right?

SPEAKER_03 50:46

And that's like with Pinot in particular, you can go the broadest with Pinot Noir over any of the variety.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:53

That's it. I think like that, and I yeah, I think I think Pinot Noir is the best food one.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

I mean, that's a journey we talk about too when you bring up, you know, um going into a restaurant and when you speak to, you know, um, not a kami-sami, but like one of the good ones, you know, that the psalm is we would hope was like gonna lead you on a journey that is including that that aspect of of your discovery. Yeah. Is is is the food journey, not not I'm trying to sell you something because, you know um of the high price point, or you know, this is this is like what the leadists say is the best. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

You know, I mean I would love it if if there were some out there who just who don't like our wines, but were just like, you know what, I'm gonna go out and recommend this wine to everybody that comes in and just see how it goes. Like instead of being like, I'm gonna recommend this like priced from you know unknown producer or whatever. Um because at the end of the day, if you're giving your guests a good experience, that's every restaurant, the only thing they're going for is the return customer. Like that's it. If you I I guess you could be like the French laundry, and you just know you have a waiting list for people to do their one experience of a lifetime with you. But the general restaurateur is looking for how do I get a return customer? And and that is everything to do with their controllables, right? They're their ambiance, their music, uh, their service. I I look at that as a as a more controllable and their food. Um, and then and then wine is also a part of that. But if you're if you have one person that's going rogue and recommending stuff that tastes like, you know, piss, yeah, that that's gonna that's gonna be one notch down in the experience and and one notch down from an opportunity to bring that customer back.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Yeah. I just think that's like so interesting. I think Bell Gloss was such a I just think that was meant to be. I mean, that's just a beautiful, that's a beautiful name. I know sometimes people, you know, they first see it and they may say Bell Glow or Bella. I get a lot of black. I think Bella's in people's heads, but hey, but they're kind of saying it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

It's yeah, well, it actually is the same thing. Yeah. In France, Bell means beautiful. Yeah. So and then gloss, we actually don't know what that means. Um it's it but it's an old, it's a family name. Yeah. Uh so dating back to to Alsace. But uh it doesn't really have like we I don't believe what the roots of it are. Like where it it's like could it be Dutch, could it be German, could it be French, could it could it be some sort of Scandinavian? Like it it could be any of those things.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:31

Cause 23andMe kind of comes over and just fucks you.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Um I don't even look at mine anymore. I don't even want to see it.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

Well, you don't really know, like I mean, like my mom's side, like I just grew up as like, oh, you're half German and half Italian. Period. Same. And well, I mean, no, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

You're half a half Mexican, half Italian, but it was just like that simple.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

Yeah, it was that so and that's kind of how you keep it simple. Like you kind of think of it more maybe as culturally than like where your ancestors actually actually lived or where they migrated from or through to. Um and so there's a lot of like Scandinavian or Norwegian blood in uh on my dad's side, where I was always under the impression it was German, but then there's like some Dutch as well. So you kind of think like maybe they started up in like kind of the Scandinavian countries, and then they ended up like in Holland area, kind of northern Europe, and then some people moved down into like Alsace, Spain, or sorry, Alsace, uh France and Germany, and and but like the bloodlines are all mixed up because of it, because everywhere you went, you you didn't typically just go for like a week-long stay, you moved, and then you your kids found a new wife in that area, like, or whatever, you know, like and so bloodlines just all got kind of like very um you know mutt-ish. And then on my mom's side, too, it's like Italian. No, it's like we're Iberian Peninsula, Spanish, uh Northern African, um, which makes sense because you've got some Sicilian in there, so places raped and pillaged by everybody.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Oh wow, okay. Greeks, yeah, yeah. It was dark back then. Yeah, it was yeah. But but back to something is so beautiful. Is that I but I I love the the homage of the name, you know. I uh your yeah, your grandma was a lovely soul.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

She was just a farm girl man, loved it, very happy woman, all of her life, worked her butt off, uh, and kept her brain like her her whole life. Like that's what I love the most. She drank wine and had her wits about her all the time.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Um, and I well, I was gonna say, so I mean, getting so much insight, there was even stuff I learned, like some new stuff, you know, like we were just talking about the name. Like I didn't know some of those other choices it could have been. I'm glad that that um it is what it is today with Bell Gloss being the name. But speaking of which, like your journey and this whole kind of aspect of the underdog story, would you have ever thought if you were

The King of Pinot Noir: It's official!

SPEAKER_00 56:00

gonna go back to your younger self and say, hey, guess what? Just like stay on this path and you're gonna become the king of Pinot. You're the king of Pinot, bro.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

I don't think I am. No, dude, you can look it up, dude.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

No, if you like you can you can Google it. I'm just I'm just wondering.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

You told that to people, like there's some people that would probably get really mad about that. Yeah. Yeah, why which actually I think that you know, we should just start putting marketing material out there and call me the king of Pinot. Fuck those guys. Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

And I I think this guy I can I'm saying it, I'm speaking right. Like, I'm saying that I hearing your story is the perfect story to I think to kind of earn that title whether you want it or not.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

Um Well, I I think that being being that it's one of I think the most relevant luxury Pinot Noir brands out there, um, and I I we should all be very proud of that. That took a lot of people, a great team, a lot of work, uh, to get it to where it's at, and to stay focused on that and and continuing uh to become even more solidified in some sort of capacity as a a leader in the category of luxury pinot noir. Um, you know, I mean I I I again like I started in farming. I wish I spent more time in farming still. Uh I think we can, you know, make the hell out of some other varieties too. I mean, yeah, Cabernet is an awesome variety. I think we make some great cabs. Uh I love a lot of the Rhone varieties, the Italian varieties, love making those. Um and and you know, continue to do that. So I I'm glad that I'm not like kind of pigeonholed into like a single varietal. A lot of people are defined by a varietal, a lot of people in wine. Like it's like, oh yeah, he's like, yeah, you can call me if you call me the king of Pinot, maybe you would pigeonhole me and I'd be I'd be pissed. Um because I I do like having all of the other opportunities that are in front of us to be able to create I think wines that make a difference in somebody's day, right? And uh and that's I think Bel Gloss does that. Um I don't see it, you know, falling off like anytime. I I think it's here to stay, and uh we've just got to you know usher it to the next era generation, whatever it is, in the right way, and I think we're doing that. And you know, I mean, as an example, when we're looking at something that's not working within Bell Gloss, if we feel like it's taking away from Bell Gloss, we'll cut that out of the program. Um, and I think that's an important thing to do. I think people get to a point where it's like, you know, we've we've got our kind of our ballad, our migratory vineyard designate that showcases kind of a unique area, every vintage, kind of like a seasonal offering, and that's really on premise only. But um I don't think that's gonna be here to stay. That'll be only here for a couple more years. Uh we'll we'll phase out of that because uh I don't see it as bringing great value to the brand. And yeah, we could look at it and say, well, it's a good amount of cases and we're making money on it. Well, at what cost? Like the expense of that is degradation of the brand. Um and so we we need to I think keep that as a sharp focus for us to make sure that we're doing what benefits the brand at every turn. And we'll make mistakes, but you gotta correct on those mistakes. Try new things, and if they work and they're a positive, then great, keep on doing it. But if it's not, then then you know, cut bait. And uh and uh that's part of business, I guess, in any case, but I think for us when it comes to being we have the luxury of making decisions that are long term rather than going for a quarterly earnings report. Uh so that luxury gives us the ability to say financially getting rid of this piece may not be the best thing, but long term, business-wise, brand integrity-wise, and financially, it will be a better thing. Um, so if people want to call me the king of Pinot Noir, just from the premise of it offending a lot of people, go for it. Go for it. No, but I I still feel like, hey, back to the very beginning of this podcast, we're only 25 years in.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

I'm I'm happy we're celebrating 25 years. Um, but I I really look forward to celebrating 50. And I mean, maybe with you know, modern medicine and uh the you know continual consumption of good wine, I I could I could maybe live to around 100. Maybe I could celebrate 75 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Okay, well, so not get ahead of yourself, but um I I did want to say what what would you like to be celebrating in the next 250th anniversary? And it could be anything. I mean, it

What the bright future holds for Joe Wagner and the next 25 years of Pinot Noir Excellence

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

could be with wine, with yourself. What what what are we like to be celebrating 25 years from now? Uh hmm. Thought loss is 50.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:57

The death of AI. Uh whoa, dude, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

I'm gonna be celebrating in a commune where there's no AI allowed.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

I would be I'm gonna be, yeah, in a garden somewhere. Um yeah, no, celebrating, dude. I'd really like to see uh if any of my kids so choose to be involved in the wine business, that they've been able to take anything that I can teach them, anybody in my family that can teach them any of our knowledge, or anybody in the community or or of of wine if they wanted to go that route, to be able to take all of that and kind of create their own uh unique thing. Um if that's what they you know so choose to do. Uh just to know that, you know, it's kind of like you you you try to usher the next generation in and leave them with something better than than what you started with, um, or you know, and then and then hopefully they leave their you know next generation the same way. Um continue to be family owned, family operated. I mean, that's that's a big thing. I mean, most companies get to a point and they're like, I'm I'm gonna go public or whatever. Um I think a lot of people don't want to deal with the stresses of it, of managing, you know, a business and a team, like a sales team in particular. It's like, well, if we just had a structure and I was just a hired gun employee and I still did all the same shit that I got to do, um, doesn't that sound like a nice, a nice life? I mean, parts of it, sure, but like you're not controlling your own destiny and you're not really doing anything for the next generation. That's something I tell my kids all the time. I'm like, if I didn't have any of you guys, and like all six of my kids, so if I didn't have any of you guys, and or all of you guys absolutely hated the industry and wanted to go move somewhere else by the time you're whatever age, what's the point in me doing it? Like, you think I'm you know, I get up and still go to work for way more hours than a you know normal 40-hour a week person goes to and care about the company so much because I just want to make some money every year. It's like, no, I'm doing this because I want it to be better when you guys have the opportunity to take it over if you want to. So I'd say that's probably at 50 years. Um I mean, shit, at 50 years, they might just have retired me. They might push me out into some field and be like, if you want to make wine, you're going to make wine on your own. We've already got this covered. Because they're they're all they're all gonna be way better than I am at life, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

He just wants to be in a burlap bag and buried under a tree.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

Bury me under an oak. Oh, an oak tree. Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be an oak. I think an oak, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:33

I guess it could be a grapevine.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

Yeah. I mean, you have the tree out there, and then I just kind of go in there and it's carved douche. And then I die. I just want to be ashes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

No, that'd be funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

Yeah, we'll we'll uh we'll use your ashes to fertilize my tree. Thank you, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

I don't know, dude. Then it would die though, dude. I don't know if you want that, but all right, dude. Well, I think it's this is a good way to to close, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:04

I'm sure there's gonna be more shit to come up on 25 years and some of the stories, but uh yeah, there there's we should probably just do another podcast with the 25th of like the craziest shit that's happened during those 25 years. Yeah, that's what I want to get to the crazy shit. Well, let's I think let's let's do another episode. Because like we could talk about the earthquake.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Oh, I thought you were gonna talk about like maybe Oh, the the may I mean the sale of Mayomie party. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

Yeah, I mean the debauchery. You want to know the debauchery. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

But there's gotta be little sprinkles of that. Oh, is this are you creating like a cliffhanger now?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Like we all like Yeah, I just created a cliffhanger. Cool. Yeah, the king of the King of Pinot.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

The King of Pinot has spoken. The King of Pinot.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

All right, until next time, when you want to hear all the debaucherous stories and the uh crazy shit that's happened in this industry. Uh, you gotta wait. Now you have a good foundation of the history.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

And that's what we do here on Go with your fun stuff next time. All right. Adios.