E98 Alex Kumin | Joe Wagner

 Can AI ever actually be funny... or is comedy one of the last truly human art forms?
Comedian Alex Kumin joins us to talk stand-up, awkward formative years, cancel culture, social media, and why life's messiest moments often become our funniest stories.
This one will make you laugh... and maybe rethink a few things along the way.

Go With Your Palate: Alex Kumin | Comedy, Chaos & Finding the Funny in Life's Messiest Moments

This week, we're joined by Alex Kumin—comedian, writer, voice actor, and host of the podcast Into The Mud, where she dives headfirst into life's messy, uncertain chapters—the in-between moments where growth, self-discovery, and the age-old question, "What the hell am I doing with my life?" somehow collide. Through honest, hilarious conversations, Alex reminds us that sometimes our darkest detours end up becoming our greatest teachers. A rising force in New York's comedy scene, she's performed everywhere from The Comedy Cellar to Don't Tell Comedy, been featured on Comedy Central and NBC, and was recently named one of Time Out New York's Comics to Watch.

We dive into what it really takes to build a career making people laugh—from grinding it out on stage to finding your own voice in an industry that's constantly evolving. Alex shares her perspective on women in comedy, cancel culture, AI, social media, and why the funniest jokes often come from life's most uncomfortable moments.

And because this is Go With Your Palate, we don't stay serious for too long. We get into awkward formative years, wine and comedy, surviving bad sets, hecklers, and the question everyone seems to be asking these days: Could AI ever actually be funny? We'll let Alex settle that debate.

It's equal parts hilarious, thoughtful, and surprisingly heartfelt—a conversation about resilience, creativity, and why laughter might just be one of life's greatest coping mechanisms.

Grab a glass, laugh a little, and don't take yourself too seriously. 🍷🎤😂

📍 Follow Alex: IG - @Alex.Kumin, TikTok - @Alex_Kumin
🎙️ Listen to: Into The Mud

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Most of us are terrified and hate ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

So it's a it's a free it's a freeing endeavor, right? In in that case. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Oh, big time, yeah. Cause you're like, well, hopefully the jokes make well, it's like you hear the jokes, people laugh at your jokes, you're like, oh, you accept me. And then the voice in your head is like, they don't accept you.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

They don't like it. They're lying. They're still laughing at me. They're not laughing at me.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

It's that thing. Oh no, totally. It's that thing where like you could be crushing in a room, and then there's one person that isn't laughing, and the whole time you're focused, you're like, oh, see, I suck. I suck because that one person isn't laughing. You look for weird, it's a very like negative feedback bias.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Well, Chris, you did some stand-up in your time. I did, I but you bombed like the whole time, all the time.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

You never went to any of my shows.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Because I read the room.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

First of all.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

It's like impossible not to bomb. Wait, how long did you do stand-up for?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Well, I just uh so I was I was in LA and doing the whole acting thing. And so the acting school I was going to, I had some friends that were heavily in like the stand-up scene. And so it was kind of like one of those things where like, oh, you say some funny stuff in class and stuff like that. You should do stand-up. And I was terrified. That was like one thing I didn't want to do. And then I was always kind of had this thought that if I'm terrified, then I should do it and kind of like push myself. So I they took me kind of around and I mean I'm I'm an old guy, so yeah, at the time I, you know, I did some performance at Miyagi's or M Bar or you know, went to the valley to like did these, you know, pick out of the hat coffee shop stuff. And so that was as far as it went, but I'll I'll tell you what, like I I definitely earned a lot of respect for my I mean I always had respect for my fellow comedians, but like even much more so. And uh, but there was one funny thing is that when I came on the scene, there was already, so my name's Chris Rubio, and there was already this um Filipino guy named Chris Rubio, and then so I already started the scene with beef because then they would pull my names and they would always be like, Oh, it's Chris, not the Filipino one, like you know, the half Mexican coconut over here. Yeah, like and then and then he would like mean mug me. And I then I just like felt like I don't I don't want this, man. Like, I just I'm just here, you know. Watch me, dude. I'm gonna bomb. It's gonna be great for you. See, there's the self-hatred I told you that you know it's there from the start, it's there looking and you're looking around, and like no one's laughing, but there's that one person that is that was like, I love you, man. You keep me going.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Bombing makes you feel alive. Oh my god, makes you feel alive, and then you do want to kill yourself. Uh it is the worst feeling, but very necessary. It's impossible. You like you have to, but it's like it's character building, I think.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah. I mean, I I the only I don't I don't I've never done stand-up comedy, but I've tried to incorporate some comedic elements into like when I have to do a wine dinner, which I still get nervous as hell for, and like, but you gotta you gotta sell this stuff, you know, after you make it. Um, and so when you're standing up in front of an audience and uh and over COVID really helped me out with like getting rid of my filter because we're a very traditional industry, and and just I've always loved stand-up comedy and and there's some great comics out there. I mean, right now I think we're like in the heyday of of stand-up, and and so really trying to like learn how how all of these guys and girls are are doing it and putting it all back together towards the end of you know, whatever little bit of speech you're doing. Um, and it's helped out a lot, but I definitely have offended quite a few people, which I think actually helps. Like that I think that's a positive when you're looking at people and they're like, Oh, I didn't I didn't think that was funny. And you're like, Well, we're not, I'm not at a fucking political rally, like I'll talk shit about everybody.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

It's like you you prefer offense over indifference, right? Like if you're saying something that's not resonating with anyone, people are just gonna stare at you or get on their phones or stop paying attention, versus like you like clearly you've said something that struck a nerve with someone where they're like, Oh, fuck you. I don't like what you had to say.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

So it's like, all right, well, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Well, good. Well, it is a pleasure to have you. So uh I might as well do the intro. Welcome to Go With Your Palette. We got a special guest on today. We've got Alex Kuhn. Uh, she is a comedian, a writer, a voice actor, and a podcast host. Did I get everything? And a former and a former educator for middle school, high school. What was it?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Elementary school, kind of like K through 12 sex education.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Nice. Oh man, that's gotta be cognitive. We're gonna get back into that.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, I want to like we're coming back to that. Yeah. Yeah, those were my foundations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I feel like that was a miss on my part. That would have been a fun like foundation to have for like speaking to people. You're like, dude, I've told the 14-year-olds about sex.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Like, like, I don't talk about bombing. Like, there's no truer bomb than trying to engage middle school students on like sexual harassment and like flirting, and they're just they're giving you nothing and they're making fun of you, and you're just like, I will crawl into a hole.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Oh, well, well, Alex, thanks for being here. You've got a a great list of accomplishments you've done. You've been uh on the Comedy Cellar, New York Comedy Club. You've got your podcast, uh, into the mud, um, plus plus plus, which we'll get into all that stuff. But welcome to Go With Your Palette. You got me, Joe, and this Chris Fat Mario Rubio as the co-host, and we are gonna talk about wine, entrepreneurship, and whatever the fuck else. So that's that's how we go.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Let's do it. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

So let's let's hear about your you're in New York, but where did it all start?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

I am I'm in New York right now, but it did start in Chicago. So I was living in Chicago for many years, teaching like sex education. Um, it was actually like sexual harassment, prevention stuff. It was it was a rape crisis center, so it was pretty heavy like material that we were doing. And at the time, a friend of mine was like, Oh, you should you should try Second City. Like they they do fun, like it was meant just for like just balancing my life, just kind of balancing the heaviness of what I was doing during work. And Chicago is of course like the home of Second City improv, all that stuff. So I went through the program, loved it, and then ended up taking a stand-up class a couple years later and immediately fell in love with like I remember the night I did stand up being like, oh, this is this is the thing I'm supposed to be doing. It just was like this instant. I don't know if you've ever had a moment like that where you're just like, you're just no, like you're just like, oh, this is it, this is the thing. And so I started going to open mics and then was still working the day job and then sort of slowly transitioned into more and more stand-up, and then about coming up on five years ago, moved to New York. And uh, I've been here ever since and just doing lots of stand up. I do voiceover work, um, I have a podcast into the mud, like we said, and um some acting stuff here and there. But I think the life of an entertainer, you just kind of cobble together whatever you can, and you you just get your face out and you get your you get your act out there as much as possible.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Yeah, self-promotion to the max is kind of the that's that's what you got to do.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Mm-hmm.

unknown 7:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Without the narcissistic bent to it. I mean, yeah, that's that's what I'm gathering.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

So in New York, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. Was that was that part of it, or was it just the saturation of of a great amount of opportunities ahead? What what drove you to New York?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, it it's a little bit of both. I think um the industry, the way it was, particularly when I started, um, you have LA and New York as sort of the like the big epicenters of entertainment. Um, that's not to say that like other cities don't have that. And I think with the advent of social media and the way that things have transitioned, a lot of people are able to make it um outside of these major cities, but you do kind of hit a ceiling in if you're not in one of those places, and there's just far more opportunities and and opportunities to get on stage and meet people and and just do stuff in like on the coasts.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

That makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah. I mean, similar to like, I'm sure it's similar to like being in wine country. It's like, sure, you could do it in Boise, but like you want to be in California, you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Yeah, you want to be you want to be thrown into the fire and see, you know, see how well you manage it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, and I think I mean, and I mean, obviously, technology and where we've come with social media and stuff like YouTube channels and stuff like that, there's much more reach now, right? I mean, if you want to get your content out there and you know, being in New York back in, you know, in in the day where that wasn't so prevalent as a way to get your content out there, that was how you did it, right? Like, I gotta be seen at these comedy clubs. I need to be, you know, have my shows and stuff like that to get it out there.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Totally. And it's it's been an interesting switch over into social media, kind of being the currency now of like followers have become the marker of like, can you go work on the road? Can you get booked at clubs? Whereas before it was like, get good, the clubs will book you, and then that's how you build your audience. Now you kind of have to have your own audience and bring them with you to wherever you're touring or whatever you're doing. I don't know if is that similar in like in your industry right now? Are you guys seeing it?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

I was just gonna draw like correlate it and and uh I'm envious of comedy and and how it has but maybe it's just my feed, but like I'm envious of comedy and how it is it is so pointed, and you get these little clips, and it it inspires you to watch the whole, the whole, you know, like to look that comic up and to watch their whole special if they've got one or whatever it might be, but a great way to advertise. And it's the absolute opposite for for wine. I mean, it doesn't draw people to you. It might draw you to or might draw them to your product, uh, but by and large, it's a very traditional industry where it's still food and wine and and you know, agriculture, and it's a lot of things that just aren't sexy or provocative, and that is what the you know consumer mind wants right now is more uh more more provocative uh nature to what they're hearing, seeing, um, to draw them to whatever product that is, whether it is a bottle of wine or it is you know a comic. Um and so we have a big miss in our industry. I think we do a pretty good job of it, but we're still not like we're nowhere near comedy. Um, but I you know, and and I I'd love to see more of that in wine, but there is part of me that looks at it like in comedy, is there when you're when you're kind of developing your set and what you want to do uh throughout that throughout that set, are you actually kind of baking in pieces that you know are going to be potentially viral clips for social media?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah, so it's uh it's such an interesting thing right now because there that does kind of have to be at the forefront now of like like it's I don't think we should be doing that, and I try not to get on stage and be like, okay, tell this joke exactly how you want it to be told, like exactly how you want it to appear online so that it goes viral because you don't know some stuff goes viral. I have jokes that I've tried a bunch that do fine in the room and then just pop online, and then I have some jokes that destroy every time and like barely move the meter, and so you can't really tell what's gonna pop. Um, and so it's hard. You and for me, getting into comedy and the reason I did it was because of the energy in the room, right? Like that's what made me fall in love with it. The like this idea that there is this group of people in that room, they're never gonna be that same group ever again. You're creating this completely unique experience for you in this like one whatever it's if it's a 15-minute set, if it's an hour set, you're creating this completely unique idea. And that doesn't really translate to being online. And so I think um a lot of people have started to do that of like setting up cameras at every show. Really, what I think a lot of people are doing is setting up cameras at every show so that you can capture it in case you have a kind of magic moment. Um, but playing to or crafting a set around like what you think might go viral to me is kind of antithetical to your job as the comedian, which is to make the people in the room laugh and to and to create the energy there.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

I like that. That and that sounds much more natural. Um, and I mean, because it does seem like two completely different viewing venues, right? And and you're you may have it's just funny, like you gotta you gotta almost lead and have those opportunities for your your posts and and online segments that that really you know draw people in, but that's not at all. That's just I accidentally got that, but that's at the forefront of my marketing. But people are really coming to see and live in that moment, which is one thing I think that's what comedy's doing great right now, is like they're bringing people back into like, no, go out and have that experience, see it in real life, maybe you know, get some trash talked about you by the comic. Like, and that's all part of the joy of it. Like it it's it's very cool to see. I think our society is hopefully, I think it is turning a little bit towards getting back into those interactions.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Totally, yeah. Yeah, totally. I I feel the pendulum slowly swinging back towards people really craving this connection and needing to be in community in person. Yeah. I think obviously COVID slammed us in a way that none of us had ever experienced before. And then I think after that, we kind of all stayed on our phones, right? I mean, I've had people come up to me at shows being like, I've never been to a comedy show before. I usually watch comedy alone on my couch, which is not how it's supposed to be consumed, right? It's supposed to be consumed, it's a very different experience to watch, even to watch a fully produced stand-up special on Netflix or Hulu, whatever it is, that's a very different experience than being in the room and and being next to someone who's laughing and feeling that energy. Um, and so I do think people are starting to miss that togetherness and are starting to come back a little bit more. And performers and comedians are also really pushing for that, right? It's like, get go support the support your local show, support your local club, get out there, go do stuff because we're seeing, you know, I'm you you can see the effects of social media and what it's doing to us and how it's kind of shutting down our relationships and even just like you know, like do you remember when you used to just have to stand in line for coffee and you just had to either stand there or talk to someone next to you or whatever it was, but it we have completely cut out all these like micro interactions with people, and I think it's really starting to affect the way that we are moving through the world and how we're just treating people in general, right? Like the way that people talk to each other online, it's just so can be so toxic because we're starting to lose a little bit of that like just human connection.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Yeah, just straight up it's it's black or white. That's it. People, it's like you don't have my ideology, you're wrong, and and fuck you. Yeah, and and I I do think that comedy was the savior of it through COVID. I that's I'm gonna I'm gonna give credit to comedy because that was one thing where you did feel, even if it was somebody doing a small special, you did feel authenticity and you were watching it during these kind of lockdown times, and comedy was the one thing that prevailed, and the truth in comedy, especially while kind of society was going the opposite direction of like you know, silencing your own thoughts, even even if you don't agree with them. Um, and the comics were able to get away with it all and kind of keep it fresh and lively, unique, and and they kind of I think just really spearheaded the the get people back into uh the in-person event. And it's not you know Shane Gillis selling out a uh arena, like I'm talking like the actual like the comedy clubs, those are the best where you as a comic get to see everybody and everybody feels like they're in this intimate little space and they're truly part of the whole development of every joke sitting on the edge of their seat. Like you can't replicate that, it's very, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Well, I mean, I think that that's what's drawing people back in is the is also the crowd work stuff, and then and and I and Alex, you do that amazingly, by the way. And now just I've thank you. I am I am now a fan, a true fan. I just want to say that uh it's been excellent just to watch. But that's the kind of stuff that gets your heart beating. And there is a part of it to see, I think, by utilizing more of that interaction online, I think can also be drawing people to what we're talking about into more of a live scene because they're like, whoa, like that just looks exciting. That person is just that that's happening in real time. That that person's not a part of that joke, you know. And it and it kind of shows you a whole dynamic of that world about how, you know, as a comedian, you can bring you can bring people in. And then also like how you deal with with the with the assholes and the hecklers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

I mean, that's like the biggest fear, too. And there are many. Yeah, it's it's been interesting too because crowd work has been, you know, I there's to what we were talking about before about why, you know, social media sort of becoming the necessity at this point. Um to to write a joke that works takes time, it takes practice, and it can take weeks, months, years to get a joke really good, to get it really tight and really perfect. Um, so the pace with which that with which like these online, like these platforms that they demand of you, for me at least, it became really hard to just keep posting new material every time. And so for me, I was like, all right, let me throw some crowd work clips up. I, you know, I started in hosting, I was a teacher, like interact interaction is what comes kind of naturally. Um, and it's been interesting because there's a lot of there are some comics that are firmly in the like it shouldn't, there should not be a focus on crowd work. Um, and then some people that are like, no, crowd work is my thing, and that's what's bringing people out. And I'm kind of in the middle of, I do think there needs to be a healthy mix, or there needs to be a a uh a majority of written jokes, but to be able to address the crowd, talk to someone, have these moments. Like, I had this moment with like uh four Norwegian women in the audience uh a few months ago, and it kind of blew up, and now I'm going to Norway in the fall to do the shows, right? So it's like you just like you have these moments that you're like, oh, I had no idea. That wasn't part of the plan. That wasn't on my set list. That was just a road I just walked down during that, during that particular set, and it turned out incredible. It turned out really fun.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah, you I guess you never know. What I mean when what that's that's awesome. So you now have a fan base in Norway.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, I have this crazy little Norwegian fan base. I'm going out to Oslo and Bergen and setting up some more shows in Europe over there. But it's just like it, it's again, it's like you, I think again, that's what is so beautiful about stand up too, is that you just never know what kind of audience you're gonna get, who's gonna be in the audience, and what kind of experience you're gonna get to have with people. Um, and and again, what I was saying before about like that being a completely unique experience, that room will never happen again. Those people will remember that moment. Hey, remember that Norway thing that we saw? Like that, I can't replicate that. I can't do that again. I can't like bait someone into giving me these answers. It just has to be this organic thing that happens in the moment. And I think that's the beauty of some of this crowdwork stuff is that, and trust me, there's also plenty of shit crowd work. There's a lot of like, what do you do for work? And they say something and and the crowd explodes, and it's like, well, what did we do anything here? What did we accomplish here?

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Very good. I've seen plenty of that, but you're you're fishing, right? You gotta, you gotta, you gotta be like cast online a couple times, see if there might be some content there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Oh God. So um are you heading out to the West Coast at all? Do you do you ever enjoy California?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, I mean, I I love I love California. Um I was just uh I was just in Portland and uh plan to do some more stuff out west. Obviously, LA has a great scene, but San Francisco is amazing, Seattle, any sort of like West Coast is it's great. There's there's just such a vibrant comedy scene in in a lot of these a lot of these coastal cities.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Yeah, it's it's odd that how that how that works out. But uh yeah, no, we'd love to love to come see you. Um For sure. San Diego's got some great clubs.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

That's also San Diego's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah. We've actually been uh so in the Napa Valley, we have this old old time theater uh called the Uptown. And uh it used to just be a place to just you know, just like you know, we do uh dates back in the day when we were young, you know, let's watch the movies and stuff, and now it's really turned into a quite the scene and they've been bringing in like uh more and more comedy, which we've loved to see. Uh we actually we saw Mark Norman there.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah, Mark Norman. Oh, so funny.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, they had uh Adam uh Corolla there too, like just recently. Adam Corolla and Adam Ray. Yeah, and Adam Ray we're saying. So, anyways, I I think it's and then that that just kind of shows like we get excited about that. I think it shows that it's like even spru s you know, spreading to more of the small town uh kind of thing, but um it's really keeping things alive. But there's one thing I I did want to touch on a little bit because um yeah, I'm not gonna pretend. Like I know anything, but I I we I would love to get some insight on you know just being a woman in comedy and just kind of get like how maybe you've seen like the landscape change if it has or evolve and uh just get a little insight on that if you were willing to share.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

I I always think of comedy as a microcosm of the the world at large. Um, and so I think in the time that I've been doing it, it it has changed uh in some ways. Uh and then there are some things that have not changed. Um, I think this is generally a very male-dominated field. Um, so I'm still doing a lot of shows where I might be the only woman on the lineup. Um, there are certainly more women, and I think that again, with I think the popularity of stand-up right now and the ubiquitousness of it on everyone's social platforms is kind of showing people like, oh, there's more than just one type of comedian. And I think that's the cool thing about these platforms is that you can get exposed to someone who might be a little bit more your style. Um it definitely is still difficult. Um, I think there are, I think as a woman, I still encounter this, you know, walking on the stage, and there's an assumption that I'm not funny uh or that I won't be as good as some of the men on stage. And so I find that sometimes I might have to spend a couple minutes at the top of my set just gaining the trust of the audience, where some of my male colleagues might just have that built in. Um, and then in terms of like content, I think there's still we still, you know, I tend to go, like I said, I have this background in sex education, so there's not a whole lot I don't talk about in my standup. Um, and I think that there is still a little bit of like pearl clutching when we hear women talk about certain topics versus men, right? Like when it comes to like sex or masturbation or just like body anything. And so it's interesting sort of seeing that, and again, it has it is changing, it is changing for the better, but there's still a ways to go in terms of like women can be funny, uh, women can talk about the same things that men can talk about, and you can still laugh. Um, I think a lot of times as well, in terms of like audience reception, um, women in the audience have been sort of taught, like, all right, you have to, if there's a man on stage, you're gonna laugh at anything he says. And then if there's a woman on stage, the men in the audience might not feel like they even are able to relate or are allowed to relate. And so there's still kind of that that divide of like what what people think they're allowed to laugh at. Um, I mean, I had a show two weeks ago where these guys came up to me after and they were like, Oh my god, you were amazing. We didn't think you'd be funny. Oh god. And I was like, why? Well, why? Because I'm a woman, and one of them was like, Yeah, I was like, that's the quiet part. You don't say that one out loud. So it's like that's still a thing that happens. That's still like a super common thing. And it's a thing, again, like a talk about comedians know how to like read energy in a room. I can tell when I walk on stage when an audience just kind of like when I get like that sort of arm-crossed, like prove it kind of attitude. So I think that there's that there's a a change, but but it's cool, you know, being at the cellar, and I get to see some of the best comics in the country in the world going up every night, and there are just so many powerhouse comedians there that are just like blowing the the roof off the place every night.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I I've definitely seen I I think maybe to your point, the acceptance of uh the the kind of like more female-driven comedy has gotten better. I agree, it still has a long way to go. I think it's the acceptance of more than anything. And uh and when you say pearl clutching, I mean I I get your under your point about like men not being able to, you know, kind of connect so much with the psyche of a female, but I also think that women have more of like a hold, especially traditionally, they have like more of a hold back from like I really shouldn't laugh at that. But then I've but then I've also seen like older women, like my you know, ants and like I mean, I'm talking like 70s to 90s. My wife's grandmother is absolutely hilarious. You can talk with her about anything, and she knows way more than she lets on. Like, I mean, from sexual stuff to whatever, and she's absolutely hilarious when you like you know, break her out of her shell, and uh, but you know, otherwise she kind of sits there in you know, an old woman's gown and just sits there, like the most kind of traditional person in the room, and uh it's it's just it's hilarious. So I think we I I think that by constantly hitting on it, yeah, you break the break those walls down. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Totally. And those are some of the most fun shows, too. Like, particularly if I'm in like a more conservative area or you know, a place that's outside of a major city, I still come to this stage with like, okay, you know, fingers crossed they like me, but also my job as the comedian is to do my set and be myself. And whether or not you like me is that's that's your decision. Um, but I think some of the more fun shows I've had is even if I go in with preconceived notions about like what this crowd might like or dislike, just being pleasantly surprised at what people laugh at, or who's the one laughing the loudest at that joke, or you know, it's it's so you just never know what's gonna connect with people.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

What I've been curious about wanting to talk about too is that so if we're talking about men and women and just being more open, now we can just like, hey, we can joke about anything, like learn it's gonna help us learn more about each other and what we're going through and and a more of an understanding. So then it kind of comes into this like this controversy, I think, that comes up with comedy about you know, what what are can we joke about everything? You know, can can like and for for one instance, what comes up is like more recently, maybe there was a lot of heat about the roast, Kevin Hart roasting, and you're talking about Shane Gillis or you know, or Tony Henchcliffe and some of the jokes they made. And now these are not just chuck touching on gender or it's race, it's all these kind of things. And so, you know, where where are these lines? Are there lines or is this a way to bring us all together? So I thought it'd be cool to kind of like Yeah, I'd love to hear your perspective on it. Your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yeah, yeah, totally. I think uh I think I'll start broadly. I think you can joke about anything. I think anyone, you can talk about whatever you want. One of the cool things about this country is that we have freedom of speech. That's not a privilege that everyone in the world gets. Um, you can say anything. Um, what you can't do is control how people react to that. And so um, when I first started comedy, one of the like sort of main principles that I learned pretty early on is just this concept of punching up versus punching down, right? So, like punching up meet essentially what it means is there are power dynamics at play in this world, right? There are power dynamics in race, gender, sexual orientation. There are people who have it, there are people who don't. And if you are in one of the groups that has all the power, it's to me not as funny to punch down at the other groups that don't, right? That's why, like, if like like a black comedian joking about white people is usually funnier than a white comedian joking about black people or whatever it, you know, like how pick whatever plug-ins you want there. Um, so I think again, because you can talk about anything, you can, but I think there's also for me personally, I don't I'm not gonna get on stage and rag on people who don't have the same rights as I do, or say stuff that's gonna further alienate people who are already struggling, right? Like, I'm not gonna make jokes at the expense of a trans person because I know that trans people are already dealing with a host of issues about their physical safety and mental and emotional safety, right? So, like that's just not the road I'm gonna go down. And so I think um what we're seeing right now, particularly like with that roast, right? Like we see we're seeing these major networks or major streaming services platform people who are saying stuff that, in my opinion, is like there there can be funnier jokes made, right? We saw like that roast, like there were plenty of jokes made that weren't at the expense of like race, right? Um, and so I think at the end of the day, it's like where are you, where are consumers and where are audience members directing their attention, right? Like you don't we don't have to go to the shows of the people that are saying making jokes that aren't funny, right? But I think again, some of what people are struggling with is like, I mean, like Tony Hinchcliffe just had like this Netflix special where he's just like and he's known for like making jokes that I don't personally find that funny, um, and are can be definitely seen as harmful to certain groups of people. Um and so it's like, okay, let's not watch that. Let's not watch that, let's not go to those shows. Um, and I think what we also do is we focus a lot on what are the controversy, what are the controversies at hand versus like, okay, well, who are the comedians that are worth investing time and money into? You know, like when I was talking before about being at the seller, I I'm constantly amazed at how many amazing comedians there are that people just don't know about because they haven't been exposed to them, because they haven't been platformed that large yet, you know, and it was cool. Um uh several friends of mine were on the Kevin Hart Netflix uh comedy competition recently. And like Caitlin Pulufo is a good friend of mine who is having like a phenomenal uh, you know, blow-up right now, and people are just starting to not just starting to, she's got a decent fan base, but she's she's kind of raising in popularity right now in a way that's really cool to see. And so my response to all this is usually like, okay, we can talk about this, but let's also talk about who is worth who are the newer people that have opinions that we do want to hear more of and and careers that we want to support.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Yeah, and it we all vote with our pocketbook, right? I mean, that's that's the old adage. And uh I I will say, like, I've enjoyed a lot of you know, going back to your point, Tony Hinch Cliff's stuff, his last special, none of it resonated with me. Um, and and so, you know, I don't know if he tried to go too deep or something, but uh in into his own kind of mentality on things, but it was like it just it lost you, and and that was unfortunate, but um, you know, so that that's kind of like a ding, right? But uh, but yeah, there's tons of people coming up, and I do think that that a lot of what is out there, uh kind of to a point Chris was going towards was does it kind of separate people or does it bring people together? And yeah, I mean, I would just go back to the amount of screen or uh airtime like every clip from that roast had. It's like I think that it actually it was so provocative in many ways, some of it very simple and kind of cheap jokes, but very still very kind of like I can't believe you said that. Um, but I think it kind of desensitizes people to yeah, we should all like this stuff doesn't matter. They're they are jokes, and we can all appreciate who you are and you know, laugh at myself as much as as you want to let you know, laugh at me and and vice versa. And you know, I think that's that's part of like friendship at the same time. Like this guy over here, I give him shit all the time for I mean everything from curly hair to being half Mexican, half Italian, you know, he doesn't know if he wants Marinara or or salsa, you know, it doesn't it doesn't hurt.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

It doesn't hurt.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

It's just but our love language is the same. Like he'll come and talk about like Harry is Chewbacca, like you know. I'm I might have some self-esteem issues because of it, but he does.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

He's crying.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

On the inside, you might see a smile out here, but man in my tears.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Hey, the mosquitoes might not get to him, but I do, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Like we all have our thing, we all have our thing. Hey, Arab Jew right here. I get the hair. I get the hair struggle, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

It looks great. It does look great.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Thank you. Oh, I mean, my hair hair looks amazing, but I did I did have a mustache till I was 12. Um, so you know, we all have our origin story.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

My my wife is an my wife's an Arab Jew.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

No way. Yeah, I love that. What's her like what's her back?

SPEAKER_02 34:42

So uh so her grandfather immigrated from Morocco, but had I think lived over more in the Middle East as well. Um, but uh yeah, she see so her and her sister, they're half Irish, half Arab Jew or Moroccan Jew, and uh and her sister got the dark skin, the dark like hair like yours, complexion, you know that stuff. And uh, and my wife got the uh architecture of an Arab Jew, but the white skin and the red hair.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

That's a rough day at the beach. Yeah, it is a rough day at the beach.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

It's a it's a rough day about five minutes into the sun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

She's gonna love me for talking about this.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Oh yeah, yeah.

unknown 35:24

She is.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Don't mention any, yeah. She had did she have the the hair thing?

SPEAKER_02 35:29

The hair, the curly hair thing? Or what when she was younger? She had curly, curly, yeah, red hair. She was she was kind of the ugly duckling, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Okay, yeah, we can move on. I think that one we're gonna edit that one. We're gonna edit that one out.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

But I do think that having that like hard upbringing of not being like, you know, whatever, you like you know, popular or sexy or whatever in in your formative years creates a great personality and and has you like always striving to do better with what you've got. Yeah, and then when you become, you know, sure an adult and it doesn't really matter anymore, you're like, okay, now I've now I've got all of this great stuff inside of me, and now I, you know, look normal or good. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

I mean, I was thinking about like overcoming stuff in those formative years too. Like, you know, because Alex mentioned like the mustache until she was 12. You know, I was small, skinny kid, and I was just relying on humor just to kind of like, you know, get me through. Um totally.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

You know, well, it's like it's the thing with most comics. So most comics have the, you know, it's one of my favorite things is like when I meet someone new in in comedy, is like finding out like, oh, what was your what was your like origin story? What was your like little thing? What happened to you? Yeah. Um, and I think like uh most comics have that because you develop this sense of humor as a shield, right? You develop it as like like I feel either inadequate or insecure, or something's going on at home, or something's going on with me, and I don't want you to look at it. So I'm gonna do smoke and mirrors out here with my humor. And that's how I think a lot of people develop that humor is through shitty things that happened when you're younger, uh, and just learning how to navigate the world in a way that that protects you. And I think that's that's just how it goes. See, it worked out for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

You were the one making fun of me at school all the time. You were the bully. It was you.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Were you guys did you guys know each other growing up?

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Oh, yeah, yeah, we did. Yeah, our parents. If you haven't found out yet, yeah. Our parents were friends, our grandparents were friends like childhood, and uh, and then we we grew up, we're like one month apart, lived right down the street from each other. So yeah, we've known each other forever.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Oh, that's awesome. Oh my god, that's so cool. Yeah, given like the town we grew up in had like 250 people, so he was like Yeah, but then you like you know that you're just still doing this, like that's not a lot of people don't have those friendships, or or don't have the friendships that are good to the point where you can also work with them.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah, that is true. Yeah, we've we've always got along. It's good.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Yeah, he called it an arranged friendship, but you know, it blossomed, it worked out. Um very typical in this country, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Arranged friendship, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I mean that with what you were mentioning, I love what you said about humor. It's like it was like this defense, not only a defense mechanism, but I also feel like it has uh healing factors to it. And I was yeah, I was gonna get your insight on that because you you have the podcast into the mud. I think you you uh if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

I do want to get into that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah, because it's you you deal with like a lot, I mean, they're deep topics, addiction, um, you know, death, but then ultimately you know, like maybe uncomfortable things like gooning, like you said you know, and stuff like that. So you're like, yeah, um, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Um no, I I love this is like my favorite thing to talk about. Um I this really the end. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

I know next week.